Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 120
04/20/2007 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB181 | |
| HB164 | |
| HB3 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 3 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 181 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 213 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 164 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 3 - REQUIREMENTS FOR DRIVER'S LICENSE/I.D. 3:02:40 PM CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 3, "An Act relating to issuance of identification cards and to issuance of driver's licenses; and providing for an effective date." The committee took an at-ease from 3:04 p.m. to 3:11 p.m. 3:11:36 PM REPRESENTATIVE LYNN, speaking as the sponsor, said that HB 3 requires persons to show documentary evidence that they have a "legal presence" in Alaska and that they are who they say they are. House Bill 3 also provides that a license expires when a person's legal presence in Alaska expires. He remarked, "I don't know why should someone have the privilege of driving a car down the street when they don't have a legal presence to walk down the same street." He pointed out that although HB 3 is not the federal REAL ID Act of 2005, it may bring Alaska into compliance with certain provisions of that federal Act; for example, allowing Alaskans to use their Alaska driver's license or identification (ID) card to enter federal buildings or board airplanes. After mentioning that there is pending legislation opposing the federal Act, he asked that HB 3 be judged on its own merits. In conclusion, he said that if members believe as he does that a "legal presence" in the state of Alaska should be required for the privilege of driving in Alaska, and that a driver's license and ID card should constitute proof that a person is who he/she says he/she is, then members should vote for HB 3. 3:15:00 PM DUANE BANNOCK, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV), Department of Administration (DOA), relayed that HB 3 provides that only U.S. citizens and several other groups of people are eligible to obtain Alaska driver's licenses. Also, an international customer, such as a foreign exchange student, for example, can now, because of statutory requirements, obtain a driver's license or state ID card valid for a five-year period regardless of how long he/she may legally reside in the U.S., and so HB 3 provides that such a license or ID card shall expire on the date that the person's legal presence in Alaska expires. He then offered a specific example of an international customer who obtained an Alaska driver's license valid for five years even though that person's temporary visitor status was set to expire in just a few days. MR. BANNOCK, in response to a question regarding that international customer, relayed that under current law, the Alaska DMV was not required to look at that person's visa and instead needed only to see that person's New York driver's license. 3:19:53 PM BILL SCANNELL, The Identity Project (IDP), after relaying that he is an American by birth, an Alaskan by choice, and a U.S. Army veteran, said he opposes passage of HB 3. He then noted that the original sponsor statement said [original punctuation provided]: On May 11, 2005 President Bush signed into law the Real ID Act. Provisions of this legislation improved security for driver' licenses and personal identification cards as well as set uniform standards for state driver's licenses and identification cards. HB 3 is designed to bring Alaska into compliance with the new federal Real ID Act. CHAIR RAMRAS acknowledged that sponsor statements can be fallible and are subject to revision. MR. SCANNELL, in response to a question, said he is opposed to both the federal REAL ID Act of 2005 and to HB 3. He remarked: Mr. Chairman, if you allow HB 3 to pass out of your committee, you will have ... in fact voted for Alaskans to have a national ID card and to participate in that. You will have, in fact, granted Duane Bannock and the DMV, carte blanche, to set any ID standards that he wants, and he'll never have to come back to this committee or this legislative body ever, ever again. ... This whole business about this being about illegal immigrants, ... from my perspective, ... is a smokescreen because this bill only affects Alaskans - it does not affect foreign immigrants at all. CHAIR RAMRAS suggested that Mr. Scannell is giving Mr. Bannock more authority than the legislature has granted him. MR. SCANNELL referred to similar legislation from last year that would have granted the director of the DMV a number of rights to implement the REAL ID Act, and offered his understanding that HB 3 contains those same provisions even though [such rights] are currently the subject of litigation. He said he is hoping that the committee will realize its authority to set standards and not simply delegate that authority, forever, to the director of the DMV. The REAL ID Act of 2005 and HB 3, he opined, constitute a multi-billion dollar boondoggle. REPRESENTATIVE LYNN, in response to a comment and a question, mentioned that he is actually in favor of the REAL ID Act of 2005. MR. SCANNELL said that if it were up to him, he would name HB 3 the Alaskan REAL ID Enabling Act because that is exactly what it does - it enables the director of the DMV to set driver's license standards. This is going to cost the state a lot of money, he opined, and offered his belief that the director of the DMV has not yet provided that information. CHAIR RAMRAS pointed out that the DMV's fiscal note for the bill estimates a cost of $20,000. MR. SCANNELL argued that according to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the cost to the states to implement the federal Act will be $14.6 billion, and thus he finds it very difficult to believe that Alaska will be able to implement the HB 3 components of the REAL ID Act of 2005 for only $20,000. He added: This is going to also cost the tax payors of Alaska a lot of time - a waste of time - because we're all going to have to go back, whether we've had driver's licenses for 50 years or we're getting it for the first time, ... and provide the original documentation, whether it be our passport, birth certificates - all of these documents. If you don't have them, and you don't have the right seals on them, then ... [if you came from someplace else as did a lot of Alaskans] that costs money. It's a backdoor gun registry because a lot of states that don't believe in the Second Amendment as much as we do ... tie their driver's licenses to their state gun registries, and it will create a de facto national gun registry that we currently would not be participating in, but all it would take is someone to scream about the children, and, yes, we would. It's also a threat to not only our identity, but a threat to our country because it will enable bad guys - criminals and terrorists - to be able to have easier access [to] all of these breeder documents and all of this. MR. SCANNELL concluded: And, overall, it's a threat to freedom. This military ribbon I wear on my lapel, sir, I earned as an intelligence officer in West Berlin - I worked as a reporter in eastern Europe throughout the '80s and '90s - and I do not like the whole "Papers, please" (indisc - foreign language) society. That's not America. And finally, ... as I believe HB 3 is in fact the "REAL ID enabling Act," I do not believe that there is any way that one can support HB 3, let it out of committee, and at the same time support the very well written [HJR 19] ... that opposes [the federal REAL ID Act of 2005]. ... REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked Mr. Scannell whether he believes that a person's license should expire when his/her legal presence expires. MR. SCANNELL replied that the purpose of the DMV is to keep the roads safe and make sure people know how to drive cars - not play the role of homeland security, immigration officer, or border patrol. 3:29:29 PM MATTHEW KERR, after relaying that he is an independent computer contractor with 13 years of professional database system design experience who last year worked on a state IT contract, said he opposes HB 3, which he characterized as part of Alaska's implementation of the federal REAL ID Act of 2005. Mr. Kerr offered his recollection that Mr. Bannock has testified for the last two years that the DMV will implement this bill by scanning and retaining electronic copies of the personal identity documents of everyone in the state who applies for a driver's license or ID card; this would result in the DMV having more documentation about each person than the U.S. passport office currently retains. As a database programmer and as an Alaskan, he remarked, he believes [such a practice will be] invasive, a grave security risk, and result in a loss of privacy and in an increase in the size of government without any corresponding benefit. MR. KERR opined that HB 3 does nothing to prevent illegal immigration and is instead more likely to promote it; [HB 3] is a bad idea. He added: My security concerns are well-founded. In 2005 alone, ... three states reported successful data thefts of personal information from their DMVs. One laptop found by police in an Oregon methamphetamine house contained DMV records on a half million people. If this trend continues, there's a 60 percent chance that our state would be compromised sometime in the next 10 years. I have worked on IT contracts for the State of Alaska - if I was a dishonest person, I could have walked out of the department I worked in with sensitive information on thousands of Alaskans. There are many people in positions like mine. A DVD filled with authentic images of our birth certificates, passports, and social security cards would sell for a pretty good sum in Tijuana, and all it would take is a single employee with a chip on his or her shoulder. There's nothing that makes Alaska somehow more immune to this than Oregon, Georgia, Nevada, or North Carolina. The supporters of this bill claim that it is only about illegal immigrants. I also oppose illegal immigration, but this bill does nothing against it - foreign licenses are valid in Alaska regardless of the holder's legal presence. This bill doesn't remove any privileges or benefits from illegal aliens except perhaps the ability to obtain reasonably-priced car insurance. It's also redundant; we already don't give license to illegal aliens. On the other hand, House Bill 3 adds significant security risk, privacy loss, red tape, and bureaucracy to our state government. The DMV doesn't need special legislation and a new document tracking system [in order] to make a phone call about a suspected illegal immigrant applying for a license. MR. KERR, noting that the sponsor has said he values [personal] privacy, offered his hope that Representative Lynn would therefore support amendments to restrict the DMV's identity document collection to only non U.S. citizens and residents. If HB 3 is only intended to address length of legal presence, then why does the DMV need to keep copies of U.S. citizens' papers, particularly given that citizenship doesn't expire. 3:33:25 PM ANASTASIA MIRONOVA relayed that she is a foreign student from Russia, is currently in Salt Lake City obtaining a Ph.D. in scientific computing and a master's degree in geophysics, has graduated from the University of Alaska Anchorage with two degrees - one in mathematics and one in computer science - and is working for "a large oil company with significant activity [on] the North Slope." She went on to say: My presence in the United States is legal. However, I only have an expired visa and an expired passport because the United States does not issue visas domestically. Under the proposed [legislation], I would not be able to convince a DMV agent of my eligibility for [an] Alaska driver's license. I am permitted to travel internationally within North America and legally return to the United States with my expired visa and my passport. I once had an extensive debate about this with an airline agent who nearly refused to allow me on board even though I had copies of the immigration rules and the federal regulations themselves. This experience was very unpleasant, bureaucratic, time consuming, and most extremely frightening. I honestly cried most of the flight back to the United States. The airline agent verifies ... travel documents every day as part of her job, yet even she was clueless about the rules of my legal presence. This situation would be at least as difficult for me as (indisc.). My Russian driver's license is still valid. I applied for an Alaskan license for only two reasons. The first one was to obtain cheaper car insurance rates, and the second was because my Alaskan driver's license was smaller and easier to carry around. If I had experienced the same kind of hassle as I did with the airlines at [the] Alaska DMV, I would have never taken [an] Alaska driver's license driving test ... and I would be still using my Russian driver's license despite the higher insurance rates. I assure that there already exists an enormous amount of paperwork and hassle in being a foreign student in this country. Thank you for listening to my testimony. CHAIR RAMRAS asked Ms. Mironova whether she has plans to pursue U.S. citizenship. MS. MIRONOVA said she is not permitted to officially answer such a question in public. CHAIR RAMRAS asked Ms. Mironova whether she thinks that another person in similar circumstances would be interested in performing terrorist activities. MS. MIRONOVA said she doesn't believe so, and surmised that people who come to the United States to study are only interested in studying, getting their degree, and then moving on with their careers. When a person is issued an American visa, she relayed, there is now a process in place that provides for background checks and other security checks to ensure that the person is not coming to the country to commit terrorist activities, and visa applications specifically ask a lot of questions in that regard. CHAIR RAMRAS said he is inclined to vote "yes" on HB 3 because Ms. Mironova's testimony illustrates to him that currently people with bad intentions would have too easy a time moving around the country with only an Alaska driver's license. MS. MIRONOVA concluded by saying that if the procedures provided for in HB 3 were in place, she would simply rely on her Russian driver's license, obtain insurance, and be perfectly legal - there would be no point in obtaining an Alaska driver's license. CHAIR RAMRAS expressed favor with that concept. 3:41:24 PM MICHAEL "WES" MACLEOD-BALL, Executive Director, Alaska Civil Liberties Union (AkCLU), noted that some of the documents provided in members' packets acknowledge that HB 3 does, in fact, bring Alaska closer to compliance with the REAL ID Act. CHAIR RAMRAS concurred that the fiscal note provided by the DMV does indicate that, as well as that the funds outlined in the fiscal note would only be used to update the DMV's database and that additional funds might be needed for full compliance with the federal Act. MR. MACLEOD-BALL explained that for those opposed to the REAL ID Act, the strategy, nationally, is to try to garner support in all of the states affected by the Act and express opposition to it through any means possible, for example, via resolutions such as Alaska's HJR 19. But, to the extent that any state takes steps that tend to implement the federal Act, those steps could be viewed as an expression of support for the Act. So if states choose not to implement pieces of the REAL ID Act - and HB 3 will comply with it in part - or delays doing so or expresses disapproval of it, that can be viewed as further opposition to the Act which may help efforts in Washington, D.C., to repeal or significantly modify it. He mentioned that there are bipartisan measures before both houses of Congress to do just that. MR. MACLEOD-BALL offered, though, that there are other reasons to oppose HB 3, as prior testimony has indicated. He asked the committee to consider what the DMV's mission is and whether it should become the enforcement arm of the federal immigration process. If the committee thinks that the DMV should be checking immigration status as part of its licensing process, then why not also grant the DMV the authority to check on someone's legal tax status or on whether someone's committing welfare fraud, or on any number of other things relating to somebody's legal activities before issuing a license? In other words, why should the DMV only be given the authority to check on somebody's immigration status? He offered his belief that the DMV's mission is that of making sure that drivers know the rules of the road, that drivers are legally licensed and are eligible for insurance, and that the roads of Alaska are filled with drivers who know how to drive. MR. MACLEOD-BALL offered that the one thing that is known about those that would be excluded from the licensing process by HB 3 is that they will drive anyway - "you have to drive in this day and age in order to do what you're going to do." Isn't it better for everyone to have drivers on the road who are licensed and insured? In response to a question regarding "serial drunk drivers," he said that if there is a legitimate class of people that ought to be prevented from getting licenses, it would be those who have demonstrated their inability to drive safely, and that is what the DMV is supposed to do. There is a qualitative difference between serial drunk drivers and people who merely have a limited time to be in the country legally. MR. MACLEOD-BALL said that via HB 3, the Division of Motor Vehicles - which is supposed to determine a person's qualifications to conduct himself/herself safely on the roads of Alaska - is instead being asked to make a determination regarding a person's immigration status. And while it is possible to establish a connection between the DMV's current duties and precluding a serial drunk driver from obtaining a license, there is not the same logical leap regarding the DMV's current duties and precluding someone from obtaining a license simply based on his/her immigration status. "So that, I think, is one of the real key distinctions, here, about why we should not be assigning this role to the [Division of Motor Vehicles], he added. CHAIR RAMRAS countered that as an alcoholic beverage licensee, he could view the dominate purpose of a driver's license to be that of indicating whether someone is old enough to consume alcoholic beverages, and thus once a person's age is established, a license need never expire. MR. MACLEOD-BALL pointed out, though, that there has been a policy determination that one is eligible to drive at a particular age and presumably that policy decision is wrapped up in determinations of when is somebody able to safely operate a motor vehicle, thereby establishing an age criteria and requiring the DMV to verify that age as part of the licensing process - again, there is a rational connection in this case. CHAIR RAMRAS argued that even serial drunk drivers are probably safe drivers when they are sober. MR. MACLEOD-BALL concurred, and offered his understanding that there have been number of efforts to try to figure out ways to limit the operability of motor vehicles by somebody who's unable to pass a breathalyzer test. However, he opined, it is not possible to state that there is any direct connection between somebody's legal presence in the country and his/her ability to drive a car safely. Again, he remarked, to him it seems that one of the key functions of the DMV is to make sure that those who are driving on Alaska's roads are qualified to drive, rather than that they are qualified to be in the country; if the DMV is tasked with ensuring the latter, that would significantly expand the scope of the DMV's mission. And if that is the will of the legislature, so be it, but it constitutes a very big jump in the DMV's mission, he added. REPRESENTATIVE LYNN acknowledged that having a driver's license bears no relationship with how safe a driver one might be. 3:52:31 PM REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL - noting that under HB 3, the DMV is authorized to promulgate regulations outlining what constitutes valid documentation - asked what type of documentation would be considered sufficient for obtaining a license and what would be done with those documents. MR. BANNOCK said the main documents the DMV sees on a regular basis are original birth certificates and social security cards, adding that the DMV is statutorily charged with verifying a person's identity, and pointing out that ID cards, which the DMV is responsible for issuing, have nothing to do with driving. Repealing all [non-driving related] statutory provisions would enable to the DMV to focus simply on ensuring driver competence. Other documentation that is currently acceptable, he continued, are court records and passports. He offered his understanding that under a specific provision of HB 3, the DMV will be able to accept a person's current valid driver's license as sufficient documentation; thus, as long as a person's driver's license is not expired, canceled, revoked, or suspended, he/she won't have to [provide any other form of documentation]. He also relayed that the DMV does have a plan for eventually retaining electronic copies of the aforementioned documents, but that plan has not yet been implemented. REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS asked what documentation is required of a person now if his/her license expires, and what documentation will be required under HB 3 if a person's license expires. 3:56:12 PM MR. BANNOCK said that under HB 3, the person will have to reestablish who he/she is [via additional documentation] because the DMV will not accept an expired, canceled, revoked, or suspended license as sufficient documentation. Under current law, a person coming in with an expired license needn't provide any additional identifying documentation. He mentioned that statutorily, a person may renew his/her driver's license up to 12 months in advance. CHAIR RAMRAS closed public testimony on HB 3. REPRESENTATIVE HOLMES questioned whether passage of HB 3 would enable [the DMV] to later implement the federal REAL ID Act without requesting further statutory changes. MR. BANNOCK indicated that no further statutory changes would be necessary. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL offered his understanding, however, that certain appropriations might be required. MR. BANNOCK concurred. CHAIR RAMRAS offered his understanding that state compliance with the REAL ID Act would come at considerable expense. MR. BANNOCK concurred, and, in response to a question, relayed that he doesn't yet know what it would cost the state to become completely compliant with the REAL ID Act. [HB 3 was held over.]
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